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Show Notes
Afriquan Film is a podcast series in which we shall explore our continent’s cinematic landscape through film recommendations, as well as conversations with pertinent practitioners working within this creative industry.
Episode 2 finds us talking with award-winning film-maker Sam Soko about his journey making the Sundance-winning documentary Softie. This conversation then further delves into a discussion on the state of collaboration across African countries. Follow us on @afriquanfilm on Instagram and Twitter for more information.
Credits
Host: Yazz The Student
Guest: Sam Soko
Voice Artist: Nomava Kibare
Script and Edit: Yalezo Njuguna
Original Music Produced by: Katlego DoouShii Tema
Producers: Yalezo Njuguna and Kibare wa Njuguna
Film Recommendation
Softie [Podcast Recommendation] – Trailer
Black Girl [Guest Recommendation] – Trailer
Beats of The Antonov [Guest Recommendation] – Trailer
Other Podcasts
Brought to you by:
Full Episode Transcript
Introduction by Yalezo Njuguna
Hey, how you doing? I hope you’re good. I hope you’re relaxed. Welcome to the 2nd episode of Afriquan film. My name is Yalezo. I go by Yazz the Student, which is Y-A-Z-Z the Student on all social platforms. So if you didn’t catch our first episode, I highly suggest that you do. In that episode, we spoke with Showmax representative Kevin Kriedemann on African films within the streaming landscape and how it is that they perform and essentially what’s coming next within the African streaming space. What I find very exciting about today’s episode, is one of the things which we always do is we ask our guests what their favorite African film is and his current favorite African film is what we’re going to be talking about today with the director of the film. If you haven’t watched the first episode, Kevin’s current favourite film is a film called Softie. It is a documentary which came out this year, and it is a documentary from Kenya that is so beautiful, so heartbreaking. It’s a lot of things at once, and it essentially takes us into the world of Kenyan politics. The film centers around a photojournalist by the name of Boniface Mwangi and his seven year journey to running for political office. Boniface was a photojournalist who, within like 2007/2008, was showing the depths of political corruption. So much so, to the point that he decided that he wanted to run for political office, to make a change and to kind of be an…He started becoming an activist and his activism led him to wanting to run for political office. And in that decision, the story then brings us into the world, not just of the Kenyan political system, but into his family life. And what I find really fascinating about it, or one of the things that I find fascinating about that film, is that it gives you a very deep understanding into the struggles of being an activist against having a family life. Because he has a wife, Njeri… Njeri Mwangi and kids. He gets to a point where he has to kind of decide, is the fight for his country at the cost of his fight for his family. The more…the deeper he gets into his political run, the more time that he has to spend away from his children and the more dangerous it actually becomes for him. And we get to kind of see that from his perspective, as well as from the family’s perspective.
Exerpt from Trailer
Yalezo Njuguna
It’s this very thrilling and deeply emotional film that I urge you if you do love documentaries to go and check out. I thoroughly enjoyed it. It was one of my favorite films that I watched at this year’s DIFF along with, I think IT was called, Finding Sally, which is another documentary and yeah, that is the film which we’re going to be talking about today. That is our recommendation. As well as it being our recommendation, we are talking with the filmmaker Sam Soko as this week’s guest. And that is Afriquan film our second episode. Do let me know, what are some of your favorite African films. It doesn’t have to be current African films. It can be like, deep, deep, deep African films. We really want to kind of start a dialogue to understand the landscape of them. Also, please do tag what streaming platforms they are on. So for example, the first movie that we talked about last week in terms of recommendations is I Am Not a Witch, which is available on Showmax. So, if there’s a movie, which you know, that you want to recommend, and it’s also available on a streaming platform, do let us know where it’s available so we can also get a deeper understanding of the scope of African film that exists out there. Thank you so much for your time. I hope you do check out the second episode. It is with the director of this Sundance winning film which is currently available in Kenyan cinemas all around, Softie.
Nomava Kibare
Welcome to Afriquan Film!
This episode was sponsored by the Department of Sports Arts and Culture.
INTERVIEW BEGINS.
Yalezo Njuguna
Yo, what’s up? This is Yazz. And we’re back with another episode of Afriquan Film and in studio with us we have someone we have been so excited to talk to. He is a groundbreaking filmmaker with the groundbreaking film called Softie. It is a film which I got to watch at the Durban International Film Festival with my family and was completely blown away by it and the film became the First Kenyan film to debut at… to premiere at Sundance, as well as winning Best Documentary at the Durban International Film Festival thus allowing it to participate or is now currently within the Oscar races. For the production company, which is currently involved in this, I believe this is not the first time they have been within the Oscar races because the same production company, which this man is a co-founder of, called LBX Africa released the film in 2017, called Watu Wote, which both won a student Academy Award as well as was nominated for Best Live Action short film. So you can understand why I’m this excited to talk to our current guest Sam Soko, who’s going to basically paint what I haven’t said about him. Welcome, sir. How you doing?
Sam Soko
Hey! Nice, Nice to chat with you. It’s great to chat to you. And just, you know, small correction. So with Watu Wote, we were the service production company. But again, yeah, it’s an incredible honor to to even be in conversation of anything close to the Oscars.
Yalezo Njuguna
So wait! Just for the people who don’t know. What is the difference between a production company and a servicing production company?
Sam Soko
So a production company is essentially the main production company that kind of holds the copyright of the film. And essentially, in more cases then one owns the film. A service production company, essentially, is, you are the boots on the ground. Like the…Because the film, Watu Wote was filmed and made and done in Kenya, with mostly a Kenyan crew. So, we essentially coordinated that fact, and kind of were the hub of making the film more or less. But we collaborated with the Hamburg Media School. Because they were a media school I think it couldn’t officially be a co-production. So we essentially were provided that service.
Yalezo Njuguna
I see. So what was…what has been your journey into film because from what I’ve seen, from the research that I’ve… What’s currently out there. You started basically within music videos, and then kind of moved, and not necessarily bumped into but the documentary that you’re currently known for Softie, is something which was not necessarily planned to be a documentary but was moreso an activism video, because you’re an activist. But before we even get there, what was your journey into actually…what made you want to become a filmmaker? What was that journey about?
Sam Soko
So I actually started in theater. I started out…I studied theater and film in, in a place not too far from Nairobi, called Eldoret. In a university called Moi. And I initially started out working in a theater and in that space I kind of moved into, and particular also in school that, moved into a lot of writing and I was really engaged in a lot of radio play. So I did, like a couple of radio plays and one of them ended up in the BBC. That was produced by the BBC. And then at that point, I kind of started being fascinated and engaging in film, and in, particularly in stories in film. So at that point, it was more a lot of short content. Short content, like both documentary and like you said, music videos. But it was more a different…I saw music videos, differently.*unintelligible*…I loved essentially making films that were music that had music with them.
Yalezo Njuguna
Yeah.
Sam Soko
And at the same time, I did a couple of shorts, but the running thread in all these things that I was doing was they all engaged social, like social change messaging, and conversations about, you know, raising the dignity of the human being. So, when the time came to…when we had this idea to make an activism manual, and we looked at, you know, looked at several activists in around the space, I eventually…we eventually meet…eventually meeting Softie. It was kind of like a coming together of something that I’d wanted to do for a long time, because it kind of just connected all the dots in all these spaces. But like you said, initially, it was not supposed to take this long. And it was not supposed to be this long. It was supposed to be like 5-10 minutes, put it on YouTube, and you know, get get people you know, all pumped up and hyped about the changes they can make and different ways in which they can make the change.
Yalezo Njuguna
And that 5-10 minute video then turned into a 7-year journey.
Sam Soko
Yeah, man. Crazy, right?
Yalezo Njuguna
Very, but yeah…It also…Films specifically within our continent, or at least I know from a South African context. Also, a lot of films tend to take that long from conception to towards cinema. And you guys are going to be premiering or you would have premiered ,since this is only going to air in November, on October 16.
Sam Soko
Yes. That’s happening and it’s something we’ve been waiting for, for a long time. Because you know that the making, even from the Genesis, this film was meant for our audience. They’re probably the audience who are gonna watch the film and get all the jokes.
Yalezo Njuguna
But… yeah sorry?
Sam Soko
No no and then it’s something that I’m deeply deeply excited about.
Yalezo Njuguna
Within watching DIFF, Softie was one of my two favorite films that I watched within the actual full festival. It was between Softie and another documentary called Finding Sally. Which happens to be very strange for me because, personally, I’ve only kind of gotten into documentary watching very recently. I’ve…All my life, I’ve kind of just been very much a, not just entertainment, but very much a… not just films, but like, specifically entertainment films. It’s what I’ve been writing since I was like nine. But there’s something very special about both films, in that it taps both into the political system, but at the same time, a family system. And Finding Sally also kind of just takes you through Ethiopia’s political system through the lens of family, which is something which beautifully which Softie does. And one of the things which kind of resonated a lot with me was basically, I don’t know how to explain it, but it takes a long time to explain. But essentially, I’m the grandson of a political activist within South Africa. He was essentially exiled with my entire family. And they had to kind of, during apartheid, basically exiled and refugee all the way from West Africa and then finally landed within the UK. So one of the things which I was able to kind of see within this thing is that it really gives both angles of the political system, in terms of you have this activist and we usually either hear the side of the activist or the side of the family. So like with Martin Luther King, you’d be hearing from from Coretta King, or you’d be hearing from the actual political party. But this one puts both of them, both at edge. And there was a specific scene, I believe…There was the scene which resonated very deeply with me, and I think it was with the son Nate, and he was in America. They had already moved to America. And the mom was asking… someone is asking him… I believe was either you or… either the interviewer, or the mom
Sam Soko
That was me.
Yalezo Njuguna
was asking about his relationship with his father. And he gave such a disconnected response. And I remember feeling… really resonating with that, because also within my mom… she’s also told me, that at a specific point in time when my grandfather was this political activist, and he was within the UK and doing all of these things, she didn’t know who this who this person was, that was a father. And I got so scared because it brings you into not just the reality, but the realities of a lot of the times political activists tend to kind of have to choose between family and country.
Sam Soko
Exactly. I think the thing that Tamara’s film and I’m a huge admirer of Tamara and her film Finding Sally. Her film and our film tries to do, I think in many cases, is kind of demystify a lot of these spaces. In in Softie, I think we try to demystify an activist and who an activist is, because we’ve kind of built this huge narrative around heroes that kind of circles around them. And we seldom remember that there are many other heroes behind these heroes. Like there are people who do so much and carry so much that they should be identified as heroes in their own right. And I think in that sense, allow us and encourage us to be heroes in our own right. Because without us being like, you’re saying, we only got to hear from Coretta Scott King, a lot of the time, after Martin Luther King died. And, it’s crazy to think about it because there’s such strength in a woman like her that the world doesn’t allow, like, the world doesn’t give the space to exist. And in our case, like I witnessed the struggle of Softie, like Softie is the nickname of the main protagonist of the film, which is Boniface and I witnessed the struggle. And I’m a Kenyan. So I witness the necessity of the struggle. Like I know why going to the streets to fight against corruption is an important thing. And I am like, “Yes! It has to happen.” But at the same time, I witnessed the consequence of that struggle. And I…like I think I would want a lot of audience to leave the cinema thinking it’s…It’s unfair to let people exist in kind of that contradiction. Like they love their families. Yes, but they have to do these things for us. Why can’t we be a part of that journey? Why can’t we be a part of that change? Such that, they’re allowed to be present for their children. Because if that doesn’t happen then, and it’s society as a whole, like it doesn’t necessarily speak to like, you know, this is only something that I want Kenyans to do. And I think it’s something especially the way the world is right now. It’s something that is like a call to action to a lot of people in the world.
Yalezo Njuguna
So how was…how did you… you’ve spoken about the relationship that you had with Boniface but how exactly did that form? And at what point was it that you then went from saying, “Okay, this is no longer going to be a 10 minute YouTube video,” but this is not going to be a film. That we’re going to now invest in terms of film. This is what we’re going to be… this is a story that we are telling
Sam Soko
So when we started was more or less, a need to capture certain moments, particularly in protests and preparation of protest, and eventually kind of weave that together with like Do’s and Don’ts. I kind of did that for almost a year and a half, because it was like, you know, one protest, then another protest, then another protest. And then by the time we do that for a bit, then you’re like, “Maybe you can do this for like another 25…you can cut this into a 25-minute thing and kind of weaving into also with a bit of context.” But at that point, we started to realize that there is something beyond the activist. Boniface’s existence lies beyond his work as an activist. There’s so much more that exists behind this activists. I think once we took that path, it more and more started to become very clear that this is going to be a film. And the challenge then was now… this is going to be a film but how long is this going to take to film? Like, how long are you going to be here? But at that point, we were kind of at the mercy of the documentary gods. Because at every juncture, which you’re thinking and be like, “Okay, I think we’re done,” something would happen. And you’d be like, “Okay, Should I continue? Should I not? And then like, “I’ll probably feel really bad if I don’t continue.” And when he announced that he was running, I think that provided both a very scary moment of being, “Oh God! Am I ready to do this? Again? Like, Am I ready to continue doing this?” And also kind of weird relief that at least now you might be able to film something with a natural end of sorts.
Yalezo Njuguna
Yeah, you then get an arc because you can follow the actual journey of the run.
Sam Soko
Yeah. But that opened another Pandora’s box of which like, “Oh God! Now I have all these footage. How the hell do we weave all these stories together?”
Yalezo Njuguna
And then in terms of documentary filmmaking, how do you know what it is that you’re done? Or what is the way that you kind of attach the… How do you attack a treatment when you are actually deciding, this is a story and… at what point were you like, okay, so was it when the actual political run had done that you were like, “Okay. Now that now that we’ve got this arc, we can now scale this.” I’m pretty sure you had hundreds of hours of footage at this point in time. Now when…Actually how much footage did you have?
Sam Soko
We had over five/six hundred hours of footage
Yalezo Njuguna
Five/six hundred hours of footage that then became 96 minutes?
Sam Soko
96 minutes. Exactly. Crazy, right?
Yalezo Njuguna
Oh, Gosh. That’s the, that’s something… That’s a lot. Because even with film, usually cutting down like from three hours to 90 minutes, not from 600 hours, to 90 minutes. But you can feel all those hours, in terms of, just how much and how pure and deep the story actually gets in terms of getting the different perspectives and feeling…Feeling the weight of it from not just yeah, from not just Boniface and Njeri, but also just the general public. And I loved how much voice was given to the general public and how truthful and honest the answers were. Like when they’re talking about the race and “What can you do for me? These people only give us attention, essentially, right before the race. So if you don’t have money, what are you offering me?”
Sam Soko
Exactly. And that’s kind of…that kind of honesty I’m talking about in terms of reflection. Because it kind of points fingers at both ends. Because it’s unfair to look at the public and be like, “How dare you ask for money?” But this is the public that has constantly been inundated with politicians who just promise things and don’t do anything. So the journey of putting all these stories together becomes complicated, but the guiding light becomes, what do you want out of this film? And I think in answering the question, you’re asking, “How do you know whether you have the material that you’re looking for?” I think for me, it’s what do I want to achieve with the film and what kind of honesty am I able to exhibit with a film. Because I believe a documentary film has to be honest, not only to the audiences that it’s being shown to but also to the, to the people that is portraying. So that when Boniface watches the film or Njeri watches the film, or the Kenyan citizens watch the film, they don’t look at me like, “Ha! you are lying there” That sort of thing. And again, audiences do understand, this film looks…it was short of a period of time. And we’re trying to just weave together a story that allows you to enter into this world and to this space and walk through over that period. So if you watch this film, I hope you do see that honesty. That you can actually, like you’re saying, you can actually think about 2007, then you go read about it, and you’re like, “Oh crap! This actually happened.” And all the other things that happened subsequently. I think what helps you know, whether you can stop, it’s what you were trying to say and if what the material you have, will say what you want to say, in the best way possible. And because it’s easy to get in between those weeds and keep filming for a very long time, because life is dynamic, and beautiful and interesting. So they’ll always be something interesting to film. But do you have the material to, to say what you want to say? And I believe we did. It took us a year, eight months. But I think eventually we got it.
Yalezo Njuguna
But now I want to understand a little bit more about your journey and the emotional journey of actually being a documentary filmmaker of something like this. Because everything which, not just Bonnie went through or Njeri went through, you kind of went through. And there’s a specific point…I actually want to know because you’ve been with these people for for seven years. You follow them. So how do you kind of, I don’t know how to ask this question properly, but in terms of…you grow this, like very personal connection with these people, but at the same time, you have to service, the story, in terms of understanding what’s going on and pairing these relationships and these perspectives. And I think there was a very heartbreaking moment, at least it was heartbreaking for me within the film, where you feel the disconnect. And not the disconnect…but there’s a point where Boniface is asked what he prioritizes first. And it’s within an argument with Njeri. Well, it’s not within an argument. But he says something by himself but then you have to break that news to Njeri. And at the same time you are growing with these people for seven years. So what is the emotional journey? And how do you kind of…how do you temper between telling the story and actually being a human being to these people that you’re kind of documenting?
Sam Soko
It’s honesty, man. It’s being as honest as you can, in the best way possible as you can. And being… I think maybe honesty might not be the word or maybe it is but it’s being vulnerable in a way… I think, yeah, it’s vulnerability. That’s what I’d say. It’s being vulnerable to everyone that you’re working with in this space because they’re being vulnerable to you. And I can’t be this cutout board, in like, “I’m a filmmaker now so I do not have feelings. I am here just to represent your story.” You have to feel. You have to exist in the pai. You have to exist in the struggle. You have to exist in the joy. You have to. Because you know their kids are fun kids. They’re like, so much joy. So you have to exist in that joy. And I think that’s what allows people to give you permission to tell their story.
Yalezo Njuguna
Were there trying times for you within that specific process?
Sam Soko
Of course, man! It was crazy. I don’t know how many protests you’ve been to but protests are not exactly the friendliest place to be.
Yalezo Njuguna
No, they’re not. And you guys almost there was a sequence where Bonny was running straight into the into like the ga… trying to remember what was being thrown.
Sam Soko
Tear Gas
Yalezo Njuguna
And you guys followed it. There was one time where you followed him. The second time the cameraman was like, “Nope!” Yeah, you guys have been…the protests were a lot to kind of, actually wait. But yeah, you were about to say?
Sam Soko
No, no. I was just saying that. It’s hard. Like it’s not… The thing is, it comes with the emotion. Of course, there’s the adrenaline of the time and what you’re going through with feelings. But there’s this kind of, what do you call it? You feel..you do feel pain. But pain, not only for what you’re filming, but of the consequence of what’s happening. Like when you see, this is how disenfranchised voters are. That’s a very painful thing to witness as a Kenyan. Like it’s very painful. And with the knowledge that the leadership might not change. So you kind of have to go home with that thought, and find a way to still wake up in the morning and be like,” Okay. I’m still going to try and make a difference.” That’s hard. That’s very hard. And I think you do get that with the film, especially with Boniface and Njeri in how just they still have to keep going.
Announcement by Nomava Kibare
This season’s interviews were primarily recorded remotely via Zoom during September and October 2020. The Afriquan Film Podcast is produced by Enraptured Odyssey, a media company based in Alberton, South Africa. To find out more on Afriquan film and Enraptured Odyssey you can go to their website enraptured.africa and you can also follow their social pages @AfriquanFilm. That’s A-F-R-I-Q-U-A-N film on social media sites for more fun film facts.
Yalezo Njuguna
Okay. So within every one of our the the commentary that we ask every one of our guests the whole point of this podcast started off as a online phone club in at the beginning of lockdown where essentially we what we threw watch parties for African forms from one of my personal favorites being so that went into my skin and supermoto all the way to films like Atlantic’s so what one of the things you want to kind of keep is with that is the Film Club aspect of it. So I want to know, what is your favorite African film and why
Sam Soko
Yes, some these films have been made by my friends. So now you’re putting in a very tight spot. Okay! Ah! Now! Um! this is gonna be I think!
Yalezo Njuguna
and just so you know, Softie has been named in one of the previous episodes.
Sam Soko
Ooooh, pressure!
Yalezo Njuguna
Well, yeah, So what is your favorite African film?
Sam Soko
Okay. Just before I give an answer, the challenge with that question is, I have to choose between documentary and fiction, that makes it even harder for me. So am I allowed?
Yalezo Njuguna
Okay, so we’ll play it this way. Give me your favorite doccie and your favorite film
Sam Soko
That I can live with. My favorite African film, I will have to say is Ousmane Sembene’s Black Girl.
Yalezo Njuguna
Why? And also tell me just a little bit about the film because I’ve not heard about that film. I’m gonna research it, as you said.
Sam Soko
So the film essentially follows this lady who moves into… moves to France as a househelp and kind of speaks to a lot of internal struggle and internal turmoil that a lot of human beings face. And really, really embodies conversations of truth and dignity and how we as artists can work to deconstruct them, particularly in terms of how stories are told and how stories are presented to the world.
Excerpt from Trailer
Sam Soko
Yeah, it’s one of my favorite films. I also love Supamodo. Supamodo is a brilliant film, and it’s made by my friend Likarion and…
Yalezo Njuguna
Supamodo is bottled innocence. That movie, I can put it on whenever I want and it will just like, Oh, it’s bottled innocence. It just gets me into…It both breaks my heart and makes me feel hopeful at the same time. That is a very rare.. that can be accomplished.
Sam Soko
And that’s the thing and I love Supamodo on very many levels. And I’m very lucky that the official soundtrack of Softie has a music video directed by the director Likarion Wainaina. So it’s…I’m a huge fan of Likarion. Have been. We’ve kind of moved up the tracks together. Yeah, Supamodo is a beautiful film. But I also love Black Girl. Like that…It’s such a deep and particularly because it speaks the story of a woman at a time one telling the story of an African woman was very hard and complicated. So it just also speaks to the… How daring we have to be as filmmakers! How audacious we have to be for us to ensure that our voices are heard in the loudest and biggest of platforms.
Yalezo Njuguna
So with that in mind, Where do you think the African film landscape is going? It feels like it’s an exciting time. Because if you look within the last, let’s say three or so years, we’ve had very big landmarks after landmarks from Atlantics at Cannes to your film breaking Sundance. We have, even if we’re looking from an international perspective, how Black is King incorporated directors and art directors and dancers from so many different parts of Africa, and just the Wakanda effect. Which has kind of put this…it feels like there’s a renewed energy, but at the same time, it feels like even if we’re not looking from what the international space is doing just within the continental space. There’s a lot happening in terms of growth. So how do you feel and with your journey with this film? Because you’ve traveled quite a lot with this film. How do you feel…where do you think we’re going within the next three or so or four years? How do you feel about it?
Sam Soko
How do I feel? I first need to throw in in there, like my one of my favorite documentary African films is Beats of the Antonov. It’s directed by Hajooj Kuka.
Yalezo Njuguna
It came out in 2014?
Sam Soko
Yes.
Yalezo Njuguna
Oooh. It’s fully available on Vimeo.
Sam Soko
Yes, you can watch it. It’s such a beautiful film. And you could just see the, like, the what do you call it? It’s a symphony of sorts, from the director, and how the joy of his presence in that space. And the kind of level of collaboration it probably took to allow all the people in that space to get that story told is…yeah. It’s another beautiful African film that I really encourage people to watch. And yes, and it’s a documentary.
But to speak of where and I just segue into that, I think there is rising momentum in African films that we as filmmakers who are at this present moment, and even the ones who are like, you know, maybe have their films in post production and are about to release them have to keep that fire burning. I think we have to find ways to continuously keep the energy going, you know. Even if it means giving back some of that energy to other people who are making films and other people who are trying to get their films out there. Because that’s the kind of the only way we keep like the appetite there for our audiences. A really interesting example is, speaking to things like say… this could be Creative Documentary, which is what Softie is. It’s a genre which doesn’t have much footing in a place like Kenya. If you ask any average Kenyan what documentaries they watched, and then you describe Softie, they would not know what you’re talking about. So this is an opportunity that we have to kind of add to the palette of audiences. But for them to enjoy that palette, to enjoy that meal and keep having fun with it, is we have to make it more available. We have to allow them to enjoy our stories. And something I think we’ve proven with Softie is, we are able to tell the story. And we have the capacity to tell the story. And there is so much love that you can get from this story. And there’s so much…Like people want to watch this films. People want to be a part of this film. The next three, four years, I’m seeing a lot more documentaries and even fiction films coming out of the continent like way more than they have in the last…I don’t know how long. like It’s been increasing but steadily. I’ll give you a very good example; In the last three years from a place of essentially nothingness, like maybe I could say one or two creative documentaries in the Kenyan space, we’ve had four or five creative documentaries in the last three years. All of them opening in big festivals. There’s a film called Full Moon [New Moon] directed by Philippa Hermann, that won at Durban actually, as well, I think in 2017. There’s another film called The Letter that premiered at IDFA. There’s another film called The Letter that premiered at Hot Docs. We premiered at Sundance. There’s all these films that have been coming out and they’ve come out of like, you know, like they’re like, “Okay. We’re here now.” And that has happened because there has been some sense of investment. Like in our case, in Kenya, we do have like an organization called Docubox that essentially is like a seed funder for a lot of these documentaries. And what that has done is like you have a continuous momentum of films that are coming. Of films that keep moving. There’s another film called The Last Fight by this lady called Jackie Lebo, that actually ended up airing on TV and people are like, “Oh my god! what…what is this?” like they didn’t know how to deal with it. And that’s super encouraging as a filmmaker. Like with all this vibe that is out there, we have in a weird way, even with COVID, the world has kind of opened up certain spaces that one never opened for African filmmakers. We’re able to attend forums that we had had to travel to before and we couldn’t afford to go. But now, some of those forums are just a click away. And you know, you probably may have to stay up at night. But, they’re available.
Yalezo Njuguna
Yeah. Different time zones, you’re there at 3:00 in the morning…
Sam Soko
Exactly! You know. Before, you had to get…you know…first you needed to get a visa, you need to get the money to go, you needed to get the money where to stay, which was very hard and now you can actually attend and engage in some beautiful conversations that I’m sure are going to influence the films that are going to come out and influence the kind of work that’s going to come out. So I am personally super excited.
Yalezo Njuguna
Do you feel that there’s a growing Pan-African movement in terms of, not just Kenyan films within Kenya and South African films, but just like even a discourse or more collaborations within the… continentalIy.
Sam Soko
I think there is something there. But I think a lot has to happen to encourage more of it. I think it’s kind of…it’s dumbfounding, that we don’t have as many inter-country collaborations in Africa, as we do with other countries around the world. But I think a lot of encouragement has to happen. Like encouragement, I mean, in terms of support. Both in terms of funding from the countries, which feels like a lot to ask for, but also from, you know, the organizations that actually do funding in these countries, even if it’s in the private sector, or… There is so much potential in us working together.
Yalezo Njuguna
And I believe also just in the sharing of cinema and the sharing of awareness, because whilst Supamodo is one of my favorite films, I don’t think there are enough South Africans that know about it in terms of just…well South Africans who know about it, who might enjoy that film, who can then resonate with it. Or the same way, I’m not sure how much South African film on a non…if you’re not a filmmaker, kind of gets towards Kenyan audiences at this point.
Sam Soko
That’s the thing is, it’s in terms of the the power of engagement and encouraging that kind of collaboration is not only in terms of money, but it’s also in terms of availability. It’s not easy to get…to watch an African film in Africa, which is kind of crazy.
Yalezo Njuguna
Yeah, very much so. Which is part of why we do this podcast is to kind of also just talk about African film, and not just African film from one country, just African film. And we get more conversations going…
Sam Soko
That’s the thing I am saying. It’s kind of encouraging and part of the thing that I believe that has to happen is, there has to be a movement of public broadcasters from being political tools into actually being tools that serve audiences, and serve the need of stories for audiences. Because for the longest time, public broadcasters have been viewed as political tools. Anybody who’s in power really works to strangle them and keep them at like a bare functional minimum, where they are only good for news. And that’s where that story ends. And this is like in most African countries, and maybe in South Africa is a bit different. But I know like in Kenya, with all these other countries, public broadcasters are strangled like financially strangled so much that they can’t even get off their feet in just trying to support and encourage productions with, with different artists. Because I think if it was possible to just remove public broadcasters from being in political conversation, and just have them funded enough around across the continent, you will have a lot more African filmmakers working with each other, and also have an outlet for this content.
Yalezo Njuguna
If there’s someone listening who wants to understand just a little bit more about how to get into documentary filmmaking, or even just general filmmaking within Kenya, or just across the pan-African space, what type of advice would you be giving them as to where to start or what to be thinking about?
Sam Soko
So just in my experience, and in the experience I think of a couple of people I’ve worked with, I would say, it’s important to hone in on at least one thing that you truly enjoy, like within the the film space. So because film is wide, film is expansive, and film keeps innovating all the time. So is it in writing? Is it in editing? Is it in cinematography? A`s you’re honing in on that thing, and really growing and being amazing in it, try and learn the other aspects. Like not necessarily to be like the perfect in any of them. But the beauty of that is to help you understand how all these things come into play. And in particular documentary, there’s always a kind of, I see it as an assumption that people make that they’re just going to put the camera somewhere and something will happen. And sometimes, I don’t know, sometimes that may work but it’s very rare that it works well. Most times, it becomes…you end up with a ridiculous amount of footage, and you really don’t know what to do with it and you don’t know where anything is going. So it helps to, to perhaps having a bit of clarity on what you want to do, and where you want to go. And then work every time, just keep assessing, keep asking yourself those questions, and keep building and growing and transforming and just making it better. The third thing I’d say is collaborate, collaborate, collaborate, collaborate. And you know, we live in an age where collaboration is a lot easier. When I started out, it was next to impossible for me to think that I would be editing a film with another editor in Canada, and our technology would make it possible. So use…take advantage of that, and collaborate. Just work with people. Share with people. Build with people. Because that’s the only way you would get to grow and learn and see different perspectives that you were not even grossly aware of. Second lastly, I will say trust your instincts. In as much as there are all these voices and all these noises, And I know you cannot contradict to the last thing I said, but trust your instinct and don’t be afraid to accept when you’re wrong. Like it’s, it’s okay. It’s fine. People make mistakes, or people just don’t…Things don’t turn up the way you want them to turn out. Just dust yourself up and keep moving. There is so much art out there for for everyone. And so many stories for everyone. Don’t beat yourself up so much. And you know, just trust your instincts. And lastly, always, always have your best foot forward. And this I say, because of where we come from and the way the entertainment industry is organized. We really don’t have that many opportunities to say pitch something or to talk about our project. So always make sure that the point with which you’re talking about your project or talking about your film, it’s in the best place that it can be. That’s it.
Yalezo Njuguna
That is some fantastic advice, if I do say so myself. So then in closing, because I’m seeing that we have to kind of wrap in the next five minutes, what would you believe is the next place that we should go? And then also, I’m seeing that you have two documentaries in production at this point. Lea and… Lea, and…
Sam Soko
Nyandeng
Yalezo Njuguna
Nyandeng in production. So can you just… where we go from here? And then also just what else people can expect from you coming forward within the near future?
Sam Soko
So I think the next…Our next step is 1) To actually initialize and continue to have conversations on how do we keep growing our work? How do we keep the momentum going? How do we keep the fire burning? How do we keep improving to collaborate? How do we find ways to put some pressure in policy that makes inter-country travel easier? Just something as simple as that. Because, you know, in many cases, you have to go to Europe before you go to another African country, which again, doesn’t really make sense. but how do we encourage some of those things and some of those kinds of conversations? And how do we get the right eyeballs in those conversations? How do we find ways to engage with with people who are friendly to the idea of growing art? and growing film? and encouraging art? That I think would be a next step. Over and above that, we need to keep educating ourselves and improving the kind of education… the film education that we receive. And improving that by also providing a lot more collaboration that doesn’t lean one way. That has greater synergy. We’re very lucky with Softie that we work with co-production partners that saw us as collaborative, and we genuinely collaborated in the storytelling, and it’s something I am eternally grateful for. Our collaborators, Eye Still Film we’re just incredible people and we’ve been walking in that journey together. And we’ve learned so much from them than they from us. I think that’s where we should push collaboration. Yeah, and of course, we need, you know, we need money. That’s, that’s just the plain truth
Yalezo Njuguna
Because it’s the bottom line.
Sam Soko
That’s the bottom line. People need to just understand that if you sit down and watch something, some money has to go somewhere because whoever was making it has to eat. And it’s unfair that we were kind of brought up in this feeling that the artist has to eat the leftovers while you still want to enjoy high-end quality. And we need to find that space that recognizes art and recognizes the power that art has, and the influence that art has, and that just needs money on all levels. So people need to pay for stuff, and people need to support stuff. And that’s, that’s something we need to encourage. And we need…I don’t think it’s something we need to do antagonize, like, you know, both take guns or knives for, but I think it’s something we need to put people in, like have governments recognize that there needs to be protection for artists. In terms of what I am working on, so I’m producing a couple of projects, and some of them are going to be in Good Pitch Kenya in November. Some of the projects are… all these projects are in different phases. They are in different countries. All of them encourage amazing and supporting amazing and incredibly talented filmmakers, who who are telling, again, different stories with extreme personal sacrifice, and stories that are very important within their context, but the context of the world. So they vary from some that are questioning home and identity, others that are about mental health, and others that are about healing, and there are some that are just celebration of the particular individuals whom are unseen in society. I am also directing, co-directing, I am co-directing this film that questions something called Universal Basic Income, which is an interesting topic conversation in…
Yalezo Njuguna
It’s a Pandora’s Box
Sam Soko
Exactly. Like it’s touted to be perhaps the solution to reducing wealth inequality. So we are co-directing this film where we’re filming both in the US and Kenya kind of questioning, “Is it is it really the solution? And is it really this, what they say it is?” So that’s something I’m excited about. Probably will come out in 2022. Most of the other films that I’m producing will be coming out next year so it’s all all African films all the way. Keeping the fire burning throughout.
Yalezo Njuguna
and where can people find you, if they want to find out more about you as well as Softie?
Sam Soko
Cool. So on I think on all my socials, I am either @SokoSam or @SamSoko. That’s Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. You can check out the website of Softie the film, which is softiethefilm.com. And you can check out the website of our production company lbxafrica.com. Where you know, we just trying to have fun doing this film gig and working with as many cool people as possible.
Yalezo Njuguna
Thank you so much for giving us so much of your time to kind of both talk about your film and just the journey and everything. I cannot wait to hear the day, I’m throwing it into the air, that you know we hear Oscar-nominated Sam Soko. This has been an incredible… this has been incredible time. Thank you so much for giving us your time. And I cannot wait to kind of to watch both….Firstly, to watch Softie again, and also just to experience more of your work.
Sam Soko
Thanks so much. Thanks so much for having me.
END OF INTERVIEW.
Conclusion by Yalezo Njuguna
That was the second episode of the Afriquan Film Podcast with our special guest Sam Soko. Thank you so much for listening. I am Yalezo Njuguna, the host and editor of this specific podcast and this episode was sponsored by the Department of Sports, Arts and Culture. I would like to acknowledge some of the amazing team that helped put this project together including my co-producer Kibare wa Njuguna, the music composer Katlego Doushii Tema who made all the original music you heard on this episode, as well as the voice over artist Nomava Kibare. To find out more about Afriquan Film do follow our social pages which is @Afriquanfilm A-F-R-I-Q-U-A-N film on our social pages. You can also get more information on the series and the production company as a whole on our website and enraptured.africa. And if you’d like to check out more of our podcasts, you can check out the Next Gen Greats podcast which is a space where we give musical artists the space to unpack the story behind some of their musical projects. You can also listen to Giveonomics, which is a podcast hosted by Kibs where he gives a economic enthusiast perspective on specific topics. And finally, you also have What’s Hot on the Screen, which is a much more bite sized version of this, where we interview filmmakers on upcoming projects and the journey behind them. You can find those links in the description below. Once again, thank you so much for your time and for listening to this podcast. I am Yazz the Student and we shall be back again next week with another podcast.